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Posted in Hobbes 23 Comments 23 Responses on November 16, at We see that Gotham city is actually reversing into the state of nature rather than coming out of it, and Batman using his own fear although his is not really a sovereign because the people do not really give him all the power to protect the people.
It is always interesting to find connections to modern media. I must have not made my self clear enough in the post. What I was trying to say was that Batman represents the fear that a sovereign would put out in order to maintain society, although Batman himself is not a sovereign.
I just have one question. It seems like the boat scene where the people refuse to blow the other boat up makes these people not quite Hobbesian. It seems more like an outside influence that is terrorizing them in a state of nature this could be thought of as natural disaster, like a hurricane or a tornado.
Basically what I was going to say was that Hobbes states that it is the peoples duty to follow the laws of nature when others around them are too following the laws of nature. But when people are skeptical if others are following the laws of nature, people will become selfish.
This is exactly what happened on the boat scene. Both groups on the boat had the opportunity to blow each other up. Each boat was uncertain if the other boat would decide to blow the other up. It came down to everyone being skeptical of each other, and thus resulting in selfishness.
Everybody on the boat wanted to blow up the other boat and save their own lives. Hobbes believes that you have the right to fight for your life; your survival.
But they did not. Lucky for them, there was still good left in the chaos of Gotham. Everyone is in fear of their own well being so they act independently from one another. Then Batman the sovereign comes in and tries to protect the citizens of Gotham.
The citizens have some sort of a contract with Batman; they let him break the laws of the city in exchange for his protection against criminals. This is a very interesting connection to Hobbes and his theory on the State of Nature.
As a result the majority of the citizens are in a near constant state of war. Batman sees this and tries to combat it and its proponents, such as the Joker, through the use of fear and discipline.
This is a very Hobbesian idea of course and one also employed by the Joker to influence others although with the goal being disorder. This could perhaps also illustrate the Hobbesian idea of being feared as opposed to hated. Many feared Batman however the majority did not hate him.
On the other hand I think that it is safe to say that the Joker was hated my most and this perhaps contributed to his lack of support and ultimate downfall.
This also applies the to prisoners in regards to their decision to throw the trigger out the window. I probably would go so far to say he is the perfect sovereign: While reading this post, I got the scene where Aaron Eckhart is being transported to the Gotham prison in an armored truck.
Even with a police escort, including helicopters, the Joker still managed to destroy the escort and almost capture Harvey. This showed how inadequate the police force was to protect and serve the city. I think that because of the weak police force, and the weak government, Gotham is close to a state of nature.
As posters have said before me, Gotham still has people in power governing the city, as opposed to no government. The comparison between Batman and a sovereign is a really good one and even directly comes up at various points within the movie.
It clearly must have been hard to get a serious feel into the movie since it is based on a comic book but this post illustrates why the movie resonates with people so much and intrigues them.
I believe that the movie perfectly captures human nature and the state of nature. I feel that the two characters of batman and joker depict Lockes state of nature vs.
In the final boat scene the joker shows his belief that people are innately selfish, similar to Hobbes view when he believes that one of the boats will blow up the other. Batman believes that people are naturally good similar to Lockes view.
Hopefully, for our sakes, he will be wrong. I enjoy the relation to a recent film that our peers are familiar with; in fact I believe that we even used this example in our discussion group.Nov 15, · Similar to the novel “Lord of the Flies,” this novel does a good job representing what a state of nature would be like.
However I wouldn’t say that this . Lord of the Flies study guide contains a biography of William Golding, literature essays, quiz questions, major themes, characters, and a full summary and analysis.
I think Goldin'g's idea of the "darkness of men's heart" or in this case boys is to blame for the complete breakdown of society on the island. These papers were written. In Lord of the Flies, William Golding uses the story of a group of boys stranded on a deserted island.
As Eugene Lonesco said no society has been able to abolish human sadness, no political system can deliver us from the pain of living, from our fear of death, our thirst for the absolute.
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We deliver papers of different types: essays, theses, book reviews, case studies, etc. Locke s Ideas and the Parallels in Lord of the Flies In studying the ideological government established by John Locke s Second Treatise on Civil Government (), a distinct parallel can be drawn to the contemporary film by Golding, Lord of the Flies.
A presentation regarding the connections and symbolism in William Golding's Lord of the Flies, proving John Locke false.